Chief of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion DeWayne Street invited Vincent Hawkins, the principal of Rouse High School, to speak about his journey and the significance of Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
This On the Street: A #1LISD Journey podcast series serves as an opportunity to continue the conversation around educational access and to highlight our efforts around increasing cultural competency for Leander ISD staff. Our work is about bringing people into the conversation.
Episode 4 – MLK Day with Vincent Hawkins
DeWayne asks Vincent to share a little bit about himself and what led him to become and educator (01:07). Later, DeWayne and Vincent have a conversation centered around:
- What Does MLK Day Mean in 2024? (09:21)
- How Hawkins’ Life Would Be Different Without the Work of Dr. King (14:46)
- Honoring Dr. King’s Legacy as Practitioners (22:27)
- About Hawkins’ Journey (24:36)
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Below, you will find a transcript of the episode.
Conversation
DeWayne Street
Hello, friends. We are pleased today to be here to observe MLK Day with Rouse High School Principal Vincent Hawkins. Mr. Hawkins previously served as an assistant principal in LISD and has been with the district for six years. He’s an all-around phenomenal leader and just a genuinely good egg.
And we are honored to have him here today with our On the Street podcast.
Vincent Hawkins
Thank you.
Street
Welcome, Mr. Hawkins.
Hawkins
Glad to be here.
Street
So I want to say this to have a conversation about MLK Day and what it means to you. And I’ll talk a little bit about what it means to me, and then we’ll just try to find our way to consensus about what it should mean for the people coming after us.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
Street
Sound good?
Hawkins
That sounds great. Sounds great.
Street
All right. So I wanted to start with just a couple questions. And please, once again, these are just guardrails, but they don’t have to contain the conversation. So you go wherever you want to go, whatever you want to share. But I just want to set these up for us just to frame the conversation.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
What Led Vincent to be an Educator?
Street
So please tell us a little bit about who you are and what led you to want to be an educator. And then also you can add to this as well, who influenced you when you were a child?
Hawkins
Sure. So, yes, Vincent Hawkins, principal of Rouse High School. I’m from the Houston area, went to Klein Oak High School, a northern suburb of the Houston area and grew up being a student-athlete. That was kind of what I did growing up. That was most of my life, even through college as a student-athlete.
And so came from a very dedicated home to education. Both of my parents (are) college-educated, both of them academics comes first, and that’s from elementary school all the way through college. And so for me, you know, becoming an educator was a journey. I kind of ended up here.
You know, it was like more of a … My grandmother taught in the inner city in Houston for about 30 years.
Street
She did?
Hawkins
She sure did.
Street
What did she teach?
Hawkins
She was a math teacher.
Street
Oh, yeah?
Hawkins
Yeah, She was the math teacher.
And so I remember going to grocery stores in Third Ward in the Houston area, and people would say, you know, you must be Sally May’s grandbaby. You know, the woman taught everyone in Third Ward.
And so the respect that she had from that community, I just always admired her, you know, but still didn’t have an intention of going into education.
My parents had the expectation that you’re going to go to college, you need to be college educated. And my father even said, I need you to go get a graduate degree.
Street
Wow.
Hawkins
And so …
Street
So he was thinking downrange even then.
Hawkins
Yes. Yes.
And so he felt growing up that he had missed out on some opportunities because of his education.
He’d been in the Navy. When he got out of the Navy, he felt like qualified to do the job, didn’t get the opportunity, and education was used as a barrier for him. And so he got his college degree and then he went and got his MBA. And so it was an expectation for me.
And so I really was trying to figure out, okay, the expectation is a graduate degree, where am I going to go? And so I picked law, and so I went to get my law degree. And going through that process, really didn’t have an intention of being an attorney, but my intentions were different than most kids. It wasn’t to necessarily be an attorney. It was to continue getting educated.
Street
Because that graduate degree expectation had already been placed on you.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
So this is just what you do. This is the next step. And so I got out of law school, ended up going into sales, then went into banking, and right around 27 was like, okay, what is it that I want to do?
And started asking around. My sister had become a teacher. My uncle was an assistant principal.
Street
So to a certain extent, this was the family business.
Hawkins
Right. Exactly.
I mean, everyone, you know, my dad was in education in the business realm of it – worked for a school, but in the business part of it. So everyone was.
And so at 30 years old, I started teaching, at the tender age of 30.
Street
And what did you start teaching?
Hawkins
I taught government, my first year teaching government.
Street
I love that.
Hawkins
Yes, that was fun, especially having gone to law school. It just seemed to … it was absolutely a natural fit.
And so the way I got there was kind of jagged getting into education, but the importance of it was always there because it was just that expectation that my parents had.
Street
Wow.
And so when you became a teacher at 30, did you reflect on who was your favorite teacher and some of the things that you wanted to take into your practice that you got from them?
Hawkins
Absolutely.
You know, one teacher that stands out is my world history … was my world history teacher, Mr. Dunnagan, from high school.
Street
It’s always the history teacher.
Hawkins
Yeah, it’s always the history teachers.
I taught history, I was a history teacher. And Mr. Dunnagan, he was the guy that would stand outside of his classroom, and before you got in his door, he’d say, “Hey, great game on Friday” or “Hey, I saw you on the basketball court” or “wonderful choir concert.”
I mean, he was just an educator that saw you outside of the classroom.
Street
Saw all of you.
Hawkins
Saw all of you. Every part of you, you know.
And he praised you for being more than just a student. And so, you know, I would study all night for his test because I’m just not going to let down Mr. Dunnagan, you know?
Street
That’s right. Because of that connection.
Hawkins
Absolutely. And so he had that connection.
And so when I became an educator, it was all about connecting with kids and trying to make sure that, you know, “hey, you know, what are the things that you like to do outside of class” and “how does this connect to your real world in your life?” especially in government. You know, we’d have so many vibrant debates about different topics in government.
Street
I do miss that about the classroom experience.
Hawkins
Yes, absolutely.
We have a lot of topics. And so he really motivated me to be the type of teacher that he was.
And then my grandmother …
Street
It’s still so remarkable …
Hawkins
Yes.
Street
That she was teaching math. And she taught for 30 years at a time when when we typically thought of math teachers during your grandmother’s generation, you didn’t think of women?
Hawkins
No.
Street
So that was extraordinary.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
And my grandmother had her master’s degree. So to think about a woman at that time with a master’s degree teaching mathematics at the time, I didn’t realize it until I got to be an adult and was like that’s unbelievable. That’s pretty incredible.
Street
Yes, it is.
Hawkins
And so you know, just aspiring to connect with kids the way my grandmother did, you know what I mean? She was doing things in the classroom that people in their 50s were coming up going, “Oh, thank you so much for all that you’ve done for me. And guess what I’m doing.”
The kids would – they’re not, they weren’t kids, but adults – would come up to her in the grocery store and they felt compelled to tell them that they’d made it, you know?
Street
That’s the beauty of teaching is that you never really know what impact you have.
Hawkins
Right.
Street
You know, until all those years later.
Hawkins
Yes.
Street
You know, I still remember some of the great teachers I had and the impact they had on me, which inspired me and led me to want to be, when I was in the classroom, a strong, effective, impactful teacher because I wanted to honor what they had given me.
But I also wanted that next generation to benefit from that, right? Continuing that tradition of impactful, effective education. And the teacher, Mr. Dunnagan, was that …
Hawkins
Yes. Mr. Dunnagan
Street
Yeah, sounds like he also practiced cultural competency in that he saw the individual child.
Hawkins
Yes, absolutely.
I just, I don’t remember him talking about grades. I don’t remember him talking about, you know, this assignment is due. People just … they wanted to learn in his classroom, you know what I mean? Because he had built the connection before the learning.
Street
Yes.
Hawkins
You know, and so I try to take that with me as an educator.
Street
Now, that is absolutely beautiful. And I think it’s one of those things that as new educators come in, a lot of us, we want to learn our content area, which is extremely important, but one of the best things that happened to me was when I went from teaching high school for 10 years to teaching eighth grade.
And when I was teaching high school, I connected with my students, I practiced cultural competency, but when I taught eighth grade, I pivoted from being a history teacher to being an eighth grade teacher. And I saw the whole student.
Hawkins
Yeah.
Street
And so that was very powerful for me. And not that I didn’t do that when I was teaching high school, but it became more evident to me that I was teaching the whole child.
Hawkins
Right, right. That’s fascinating.
I mean, you know, this is my fourth campus. I’ve been on three other campuses. And just … you get the email every now and again, you know, “Mr. Hawkins, this is what I’m doing now.”
And it’s like, wow, as educators, we never even realize it. Like, you remember that. Like, I don’t even remember that. But the kids remember it.
Street
They do.
Hawkins
And it’s so, you know, and so it makes me … I’m very cautious of what I say to kids and how I treat them and what my headspace is, because they’re going to soak it all in and they’re looking to us to guide and lead them.
What Does MLK Day Mean in 2024?
Street
As we move on to 2024 and the MLK Day celebration, I just had a couple questions about that, because he was a seminal force in the history of this country. And so in your opinion, what should MLK Day mean in 2024 and how has it changed, in your opinion, over the years?
Hawkins
Absolutely.
I mean, I think in 2024, when I think about MLK Day, it’s about access to education. You know, that’s what I think about when I think about Dr. Martin Luther King.
Street
I completely agree.
Hawkins
I was always taught from my grandmother and my dad and my parents, it’s about the opportunity, right? Even the opportunity to fail. You know what I mean?
Street
Which is part of growth.
Hawkins
Right.
But just having the opportunity. And it’s about remembering, right, that there was a time when people didn’t even have an opportunity to fail.
Street
Yes.
Hawkins
Didn’t even have a chance to not get it right. And so for me now it’s really about helping our students understand that like someone paid a price, you know. And that’s what I tell our seniors, like, “hey, listen, I get it. You’re nervous about graduating. You’re about to walk across the stage. But I just need you to understand, like, someone gave something up. It might be your parents, it might be a cousin, a sister, a teacher. Someone gave something up to get you here, you know?”
Street
That’s exactly right.
Hawkins
And so thinking about Dr. King, it’s he gave something up. Doesn’t know me, has no idea who I am. We’ve never met. But he gave something up for people he didn’t know and we would never meet.
Street
That’s right.
Hawkins
And to me, that’s the power behind it is not forgetting that. Because, you know, this building is beautiful. We have, you know, every kid has a laptop, you know, we have all the supplies and you know what I mean? But for our kids to understand and realize that someone paid like a serious price for you to be in this building, to have access to these materials, and people are still paying that price.
Street
When you talk about people still paying a price, I think about that generation that was born 10 years before the civil rights movement. And I think about, you know, how they were born just a bit too early to benefit from the civil rights movement.
Hawkins
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Street
And all of the opportunities that they did not experience because of that.
Hawkins
Right.
Street
And so there are people who are still paying a price. And I think it’s incumbent upon all of us to honor that by making sure that we live up to all of that sacrifice.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
Street
Because there were a lot of people who sacrificed a lot of things. And as I move throughout life, I’m conscious of many of those sacrifices. And I want my life and the life of those coming after us to honor that.
Hawkins
Right. Right. Absolutely.
I mean, I think about, you know, my parents are kind of that generation – born in the late ’40s, you know what I mean? And so that’s why I feel like my father was so, you know, “You had to have a graduate degree. You had to have a master’s degree because that’s something that they can’t take from you, your education.”
And so, you know, he was the guy that worked seven days a week, had two and three jobs. And so even now, it’s like I really try my best to carry myself a certain way because I’m like, this guy paid a serious price and I want to honor that. He allowed me to have access to an education because of the way he worked. He provided resources for me to go to graduate school. He did, you know, he gave up a lot for me to get here. So I feel like I have a responsibility to carry myself a certain way, to be professional, to, you know, just be a model for what a principal should look like.
I don’t get to just do what I want because it’s not just about me. Someone before me paid a steep price, you know. My mom, a stay-at-home-mom who made sure everything stayed together. You know, those are the things that I always remind myself when things get hard is, okay, it’s hard. But someone had it harder. And that’s what I remind myself.
I’ve had some tough situations. My parents had tougher. So I try not to lose sight of that.
Street
No, I think that’s so important because I think that so many people, you know, you have to have perspective. You know, I know when I was coming up, I didn’t understand the level of sacrifice that was made.
And my parents are sharecroppers. And the greatest thing that any sharecropper could say was that my kids go to school because you had access to a better life. You had access to pursue your dreams, which goes back to that denial of opportunity, even to fail, that many people experience.
Hawkins
Right.
Street
And that’s why educational access is so important, because it opens up doors and opens up minds, and it allows you to make a contribution and to impact those coming after you in a very positive way.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
Street
And I think that’s how we honor Dr. King’s legacy by making sure … and I love what you said, the way that we comport ourselves, the way that we move through the world, making sure that we’re always modeling for those coming after us. And by doing that, honoring that sacrifice. Because it was significant.
Hawkins
Yes.
Street
As you very eloquently said, many people are still paying that price.
Hawkins
Still paying the price. Right. Absolutely.
How Hawkins’ Life Would Be Different Without the Work of Dr. King
Street
So we kind of talked about this, Vince, but I do want to draw it out a little bit more. How do you think your life would be different without the work that Dr. King led to enhance civil rights in this country?
Hawkins
I mean, just to be clearly stated, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be the principal at Rouse High School. I mean, I think it’s that simple.
You know, my parents didn’t have – when they were growing up – this opportunity. They didn’t have access to this opportunity. And so I think Dr. King made this available to me, you know …
Street
I would agree.
Hawkins
… because of the things that he did and the sacrifices that he made. I think it’s that simple that I would not be able to be an example to all kids.
Street
Yes
Hawkins
Right?
I wouldn’t be able to tell my story. I wouldn’t be able to, you know, share the importance of education in my journey and what I was taught. I have the opportunity to tell my story and to be an influence and to even just sit here because of the sacrifices that he made. Again, a man who I’ve never met, who wasn’t going to meet me.
That’s what I think is just amazing about what he did, is that, you know, when he gave his speech, “I Have a Dream,” he really meant it. It’s a dream. And like, I’m not going to meet Vincent Hawkins, I’m not going to meet these people. I’ll be gone. But that was his dream.
Street
The hope that you would have more opportunities than the generation he represented and the immediate generation after that. And that you would be able to open up the door for the generation coming after you.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
Street
You know, I think that was part of what his work was about. It was about that hope that all of the slaves and the sharecroppers had, that their children would have access to an education.
And then throughout his career in civil rights, he started to shift. As we all know, his last campaign was the Poor People’s Campaign because he won civil rights for everyone. He wanted everyone to have the opportunity. And I keep coming back to what you said at the beginning of our conversation: even the opportunity to fail. And I think a lot of times, people, we take those things for granted. But he was aware that unless we start somewhere, there would never be a Vincent Hawkins.
Hawkins
Right. Absolutely.
You know, and I’m pretty transparent with students about how I’ve gotten here. And, you know, I have applied for a job, I haven’t gotten a job. I’ve tried hard and then it didn’t work out. I’ve gotten feedback.
Street
Absolutely.
Hawkins
It wasn’t just, you know, let me just go through this process and now I’m the principal and I’ve never
been told no, and I’ve never been … But just really trying to help our students, our kids understand that it is a process.
Street
Perseverance.
Hawkins
Perseverance, right.
But someone paid a price for you to go through that. So stay the course. Keep trying.
Keep education first, because I think sometimes, you know, with social media, we all see the end. We see the end result and that, yes, we won and we see the trophies and we see the grades and the scholarships and we see kids opening up their letters, you know, getting accepted to universities.
But we don’t show them the rejection letters. We don’t show them the losses. We don’t show them the grades that weren’t all As. We don’t show, you know, we don’t show them that process.
And I think it’s okay because it humanizes the process so that kids can understand like, “Hey, listen, go through the process”
Street
And it can be a struggle but you have to have that discipline and that hope and that belief that you will get through to the other side.
Hawkins
Right.
Street
And I think that’s one of the additional legacies of Dr. King’s work, because a lot of people, they remember the “I Have a Dream” speech, which was the apex of his career. But there were a lot of difficult times. There were a lot of challenges he had to overcome. But he stayed focused and he kept moving forward because he knew there had to be a better day. And that’s what I want young people to understand. That’s that consensus piece.
We want them to understand, no matter what the challenges are, you can move through that.
Hawkins
Right.
Street
Don’t let the challenges define you, because it’s just part of the journey.
Hawkins
Right. Right.
And for me, as principal, I’ll tell kids all the time. “Your life should be better than mine.”
Street
Absolutely
Hawkins
Like we, you know, “Oh, I made that mistake.” Like, if I made the mistake, you shouldn’t make that mistake, right? Because I learned from this day and I’m going to tell you how to avoid that mistake and that so that you can do better.
And that’s what I tell my own children is that, you know, you should be a better dad than I am. You should be a better … if you become a principal, you should be a better principal than I am.
We should learn from each other.
Street
I completely agree.
Hawkins
And that’s that responsibility.
Street
And it’s also the responsibility of those of us who come before to always stay connected to those of us who are following us.
Hawkins
Yes.
Street
I think that … and I was talking to some friends earlier today at lunch about this is that we always say
that the kids will figure it out, but it absolves us of our responsibility to stay connected with them. And to your point, to share with them our struggles, the things that we made mistakes around so that they can have a cleaner connection to the life they want to live.
And I think we have that responsibility. And Dr. King was very good about that, even when he was challenged by some of the more strident voices in the civil rights movement – SNCC and individuals who wanted him to be more aggressive, he never disconnected from them.
His goal was always to model, to teach and to show that discipline and that intentionality about going forward. And I think we have that responsibility for the next generation coming after us.
Hawkins
Absolutely.
I like … I’ve heard you say before, calling people in.
Street
Yes.
Hawkins
You know what I mean? Not calling them out, but calling them in. And so thinking about our students in this … the society that we’re in with, you know, different religions and races and all kinds of different people. And it’s such a melting pot now that to think that we can break off on an island and do this thing we call life on our own is impossible.
And that won’t happen. So how do we coexist, right, and thrive together with our different opinions and different ideas and different wants and different needs. Dr. King modeled that.
Street
Yes, he did.
Hawkins
You know, he really did. He didn’t call people out. He said, “Hey, let’s have a conversation.” You know, when the president of the United States, let me bring you in. Let’s bring everyone to the table so that we can do this together, and so that the blueprint is there.
Street
Yes, it is.
Hawkins
You know, and I don’t think it’s changed. The blueprint is there. And so hopefully our kids, as they get older, they see us model when we have differences, we call each other in. We don’t call each other out. Because they’re watching us, how we treat each other.
Street
Going back to Stephen Brookfield’s book, even when you’re not speaking, You’re still teaching.
Hawkins
They’re watching.
Street
And I think the “calling in” piece is so important, too. I love the modeling piece, and I also think that young people need to know that we can coexist without one group losing and one group winning. You know, the coexistence piece means … And I said this when I first got to the district, if we all go outside on a sunny day, the sun shines on every house. We don’t have to fight over sunshine. Okay?
And I think because of social media and because of where we are, so many people feel that if this group wins, this group automatically has to lose. I want our children to know, going back to Dr. King’s blueprint, that’s not the case.
Hawkins
Not the case.
Street
We all can go forward together.
Hawkins
Right. Right. So that’s beautiful.
Street
Outstanding.
Honoring Dr. King’s Legacy as Practitioners
So the final question I have for you, actually, there’s one more, but I do want to get this one in: in your opinion, and I think we kind of talked about it, how do we honor Dr. King’s legacy in 2024, every day as practitioners?
Hawkins
I think it’s our work ethic. You know, I think it’s doing our best every single day. Not wasting a day.
Street
I completely agree with that. There are no wasted days.
Hawkins
There are no wasted days, you know, and just talking to students: I either learned today or I didn’t. You know, I’ve talked to different student groups. You’re either moving forward or are you moving backward.
And so sometimes we – by omission, by closing our eyes, by avoidance – think, okay, well, today I’ll just stay in one place. I really don’t believe that. You either got closer to where you need to be or you went in the other direction.
And so I think honoring Dr. King is being very intentional about moving forward every single day. Consistency over intensity. Right. Don’t try to change the world in one … do the right thing every day.
Small things every day. And that’s how we honor him to make sure that we’re moving forward, as slow as it may seem. And then one day you realize, wow, look how far I’ve come.
Street
How much progress we made.
Hawkins
How much progress we made.
But I think honoring him is acknowledging that we’re either going forward or going back every day. There’s no staying the same. And that’s what he did.
Street
I completely agree, because I think there are no wasted days. And I think that we have to always be intentional about taking the next step.
You know, because one thing about Dr. King, there were some really difficult days, you know, when he was in Albany, Georgia, when he was in Birmingham, he was not afraid to model for those who were watching that no matter how difficult it is, no matter how uncertain that journey may be, you have to take the next steps.
And I want our young people to understand that. You can take the next step, and we’re here to help you with that because his legacy, to me, is about making sure that every single day we do our very best so that those coming after us will have a better path than we had.
Hawkins
Absolutely, yes sir.
About Hawkins’ Journey
Street
So the last thing I have for you is something, it’s a point of personal privilege, sir. Is there anything else you would like to share about your journey?
I’m fascinated about your time as a star running back at Rice, but I won’t ask you to talk about that.
Hawkins
No, no, not at all.
I’ll tell you. I mean, just side note, I mean, I got into athletics begrudgingly, to be honest with you. I mean, ended up playing in college, but I got in begrudgingly. My father made me get into athletics.
Street
And I love how you framed it at the very beginning: student-athlete.
Hawkins
Yes.
So begrudgingly I got into it in elementary school, made me do it. Had a time in middle school when I wanted to be that kid because I was pretty good in athletics.
And I said, you know, I can’t do the athletics-academics thing. So you know what? I’m just gonna quit athletics, right? And my father looked at me and said, “No, you’re not.” There’s … he just had a standard that there was an expectation, right?
Street
You follow through.
Hawkins
And you follow through and you’re committed and you meet a standard.
Street
Because you can carry that.
Hawkins
Because you can carry that. Right.
And so I’ve run into educators throughout the years, it’s hard. It’s difficult. There’s the standard, but we’re going to provide you the resources. We’re going to provide you the support.
So not just my father, not just my mother, right, who, you know, growing up, I had to give speeches every holiday. I had to get in a suit from elementary school on. So public speaking was a thing, right?
And even in college, when I gave an interview, I messed up something I said and she called me on it and said, “Hey, I saw in the paper you misquoted …” You know, this is from my mom, right?
I’m 22 years old, like, you know, but there was just … they just had a standard of excellence that I didn’t take as unwarranted. I didn’t take it as pressure. I took it as these people love me this much and they want me to be excellent and they see the potential in me.
And I had teachers like Mr. Dunnagan who were like that: “This test is hard, it’s impossible. Some of you aren’t going to do well, but we’re going to do it anyway.”
Street
Because this is the standard.
Hawkins
Because this is the standard.
Street
And I love you enough to know you can meet it.
Hawkins
And I love you enough that you can meet it. And so hopefully that at Rouse and all of LISD we do that for our students, right?
Street
Undoubtedly.
Hawkins
There’s a standard of excellence. It is hard. It is difficult. But we are with you to do it with you. But because of people like Dr. King, these people have given you access to this education. Let’s take full advantage.
Street
I think that’s a wonderful place to end. I want to thank you so much for spending this time with us Mr. Hawkins. It truly is an honor to visit with you, to be on your campus. And I look forward to coming back and continuing to learn about all the great things happening here at Rouse.
Hawkins
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Street
Thank you.
