In recognition of the 70th anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark decision, Chief of the Office of Educational Access DeWayne Street invited Shawn Swisher, LISD’s general counsel in the Legal Services department, to commemorate the Brown v. Board of Education court case and reflect on the ripple it has had throughout the country.
This On the Street: A #1LISD Journey podcast series serves as an opportunity to continue the conversation around educational access and to highlight our efforts around increasing cultural competency for Leander ISD staff. Our work is about bringing people into the conversation.
Episode 10 – Brown v. Board of Education 70th Anniversary with Shawn Swisher
DeWayne starts by asking Shawn about his background as a person and a practitioner in the education space (00:48).
Later, DeWayne and Shawn have a conversation centered around:
- Why choose education as a profession (05:52)
- Transitioning from the classroom to a legal practitioner (09:00)
- Reflecting on Brown v. Board’s impact (18:48)
- Advancing the legacy of the Brown decision (27:00)
- Closing (31:56)
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Below, you will find a transcript of the episode.
Bonus Content
To gain a deeper understanding of the history of the Brown v. Board of Education court case, we invite you to watch this explainer video below, put together by Harvard University.
Podcast Conversation
DeWayne Street
Hello, friends. I’m here today with my friend, colleague and distinguished practitioner, Shawn Swisher, as we celebrate the 70th anniversary of the landmark Supreme Court case, Brown v. Board of Education.
Swish, welcome to On the Street. It is a privilege to speak with you today about the meaning of this enormous case and how it has impacted the nation and public education.
Shawn Swisher
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Street
Now, we are honored to have you. And I’m looking forward to our discussion. With that being said, how do you feel about just jumping in straight away?
Swisher
Let’s do it.
Street
All right. Wonderful.
About Shawn as a person and a practitioner (00:48)
Street
So, Shawn, can you tell us a little bit about who you are as a person and as a practitioner? Things like: where did you grow up and how did growing up in that place shape you?
Swisher
So I grew up in rural southern Oregon, a place that when I was growing up there in the ’70s and ’80s, it was past the peak timber. So most of my friends and neighbors were unemployed and laid off from lumber jobs.
Street
Because the industry had moved past that. Okay.
Swisher
And my dad was an educator, so he had one of the only stable jobs in town. But as an educator, I spent a lot of summers with my grandparents, my dad’s parents, who were basically like second parents to me. None of my grandparents were … not only not college educated, but that none of them went past an eighth grade education.
But they strongly believed in education and its power
Street
The value of it.
Swisher
Correct. Yeah. And they had a profound influence on my life. And so I took some meanders through my early adulthood, but I ended up going into education. My dad was an educator, my aunt was an educator, my sister and brother in law were both educators and I went into the family business.
Street
Sounds like it. And so your father, he started out as a classroom educator?
Swisher
Yeah, he was a math teacher and a high school football coach.
Street
Wow. And then I think you and I talk because, I mean, we talk a lot. I’m always in your office talking about something I think you share with me that he was also a superintendent – your father?
Swisher
Yeah. He eventually got into administration, and, yeah, he … when I graduated high school, he was the superintendent who handed me my diploma. Me and the other 160 kids that were there.
Street
They had to be pretty special, though, to get that from your dad.
Swisher
Yeah, it was.
Street
Yeah. And so your grandparents, I think about my grandparents as well, also didn’t go much beyond seventh or eighth grade, but had this tremendous belief in the power of education to make life better. And I think that’s what drove me in terms of wanting to be an educator, although at the time I couldn’t articulate it. But this belief that once you are educated and I’m sure you heard this when you were growing up, people would say education is the one thing that once you acquire it, no one can ever take it away from you.
Swisher
For sure. I mean, both my grandfather and my grandmother and they grew up in extreme poverty. And in the era of the depression and the Dust Bowl, my grandfather was on a … they raised draft horses in East Wyoming.
Street
What are those?
Swisher
Like the Clydesdales. Big horses that were draw plows. And they were in an unfortunate era in that market in that the Great Depression happened and tractors came.
And it wiped them out. And so he worked in CCC camps. Eventually, like literally like a hobo, jumped on a freight train to go work in lumber camps in Oregon, where he met my grandmother, who at that time her dad, who had served in World War I, came back and was working for a CC project and fell off a bridge and died.
And so they were living in a tent. And so, like, that was part of why my grandmother, as the eldest, had to drop out of school and take care of the other kids. And but she was a voracious reader and she always regretted not being able to complete her education. And they both felt that education was the key to having opportunity in life.
I mean, they made a way because in that era, that’s what you did. But they recognized that making a way as part of the game. The other part is having an opportunity. You give yourself that best opportunity through education.
Street
And, you know, that opportunity for us is manifested in the mission of our office to enhance educational access because it truly is liberating once you have that, because then whatever goals you want to pursue in life, as Dr. Gearing would say, whatever you, whatever you want to do, it’s not just preparing you for something is preparing you for anything.
Those things are now possible. Because you have that. Wow. And the CCC, that takes me back to my days teaching history. You were talking about that off line. Someone made the unfortunate comment that teaching history is not very likable. And I’m paraphrasing, so obviously I disagree with that. I think history is probably the most important thing we can teach.
I know I’m biased, Swish, I’m owning in that, but when you mention see CCC, the Civilian Conservation Corps, part of the Great Deal programs.
Swisher
Yes. Yeah. If you go to Yellowstone, my granddad on that side, he built one of those roads.
Street
He did.
Swisher
And if you ever go to the Oregon Caves National Monument. My great grandfather built that lodge, basically.
Street
Wow. It’s funny how we have those touch points to history in our family. Yeah.
Why choose education as a profession (05:52)
Street
So, can you tell me about your early career? Why did you choose to devote your professional life to education? And then also, who was your favorite teacher?
Swisher
Well, those are two big questions. You know, every kid ends up having a tendency to fall into their family profession. And I think that’s an easy copout to say that that’s what happened. But I’m one of the last true believers. I believe that public education is the tool that has the greatest impact on improving our society and everybody’s experience in it.
Street
I agree.
Swisher
And, you know, when I was young and wanting to get into a profession, I wanted to do something that mattered. And to me, this felt like something that mattered. Any part you can play in that has impacts all across your community.
Favorite teacher. I guess I have two, to be quite honest. One of them is Dr. Steve Bleiler at Portland State University.
I took a calculus class with this guy.. And I took calc when I was in high school. And I got by by memorizing and not understanding what I was doing, but I had to take it over again when I went into college, because I’ve been out of college for a while and been off in the service for a bit.
Street
That’s right. Because you served in the Navy.
Swisher
The Marine Corps.
Street
Sorry. Yes, the Marine Corps. Yeah.
Swisher
So here I am taking calc from this dude. He walks in the classroom. He looks like Jerry Garcia. I mean, wild hair and a big bushy beard. And he’s just super eccentric. And he announces to us, we’re not going to have a textbook that we have to create our own textbook, which he called your grimoire. I mean, he had all these odd references, but it was like your spell book. And he would go … he started from the very beginning of this is the basic theory of calculus and sort of writing it around a board. And every class he went to, you just wrote like mad and created your textbook. And when you went to take an exam from him, there’d be 70 questions on this thing that were wickedly hard. And he really only had time for five.
And he knew that. And he would tell you that. And he would tell you you’re going to pick the five that you believe best demonstrate to me that you’ve learned the material, and you’re going to turn those in with this textbook that you’ve created. And that’s how he graded you. And it blew my mind. I was so used to going to a class, and here’s the curriculum, here’s the book, here’s the script.
And for the first time in my life, I really had to take complete ownership of my learning. And it taught me that I can learn anything. And it taught me how to do it. And I will always appreciate Dr. Bleiler for that. And in fact, I think he’s still there and I hope he’s still influencing new generations of students.
Street
So do I.
Swisher
And my other favorite teacher, honestly, was my grandfather. He was one of the best teachers I ever had. And I didn’t realize it until he had been dead for, you know, nearly a decade. But I look back on all these. He wasn’t a wordy man. He said very little. But what he said was full of punch.
Yes. And when you really thought about what he was saying, it was it was chock full of practical wisdom on how to tackle life.
Street
Very impactful.
Transitioning from the classroom to a legal practitioner (09:00)
Street
You know, when you reflect on why you wanted to go into education, it does resonate with me that we’re observing the 70th anniversary of the Brown case.
And how different public education is because of that one decision which I hope to transition to in a moment. But I want people to realize that education is that vehicle by which all of us can pursue our dreams. So with that being the case, Shawn, I want to talk about your transition from the classroom to being a legal practitioner.
What led you to that decision? Where did you attend law school and what’s the significance to you of the Brown anniversary? So we can unpack those one at a time. But what led you to transition to a career in law?
Swisher
Well, as a teacher, I was a special education teacher. I worked with high school kids who had some of my favorite people on Earth. There’s … all the vanity is stripped off.
Street
Yes.
Swisher
You’re dealing with people who have real problems and they can really use your help in the course of doing that. I, you know, as happens with my special education teachers, there were due process hearings and that kind of stuff. And, you know, where parents are disputing the services that their kids are getting and you’re going through a legal process.
And I was sitting there with an attorney and I was looking at what he was doing and I realized I can do that. And this all kind of happened around the same time that, you know, we have all kinds of fancy evaluation systems for trying to determine who’s a good teacher, who’s a bad teacher, how do we improve their performance.
But I think most honest teachers can look around the building, and any one of them can tell you, man, that that one is a rock star, that one needs help. That one shouldn’t be in the profession. I mean.
Street
I know I did when I was a classroom teacher.
Swisher
Sure, everybody does. Everybody knows it. And I knew that I wasn’t a rock star. But, you know, I wasn’t a “shouldn’t be in the profession.” But I think I was really convicted that I was an OK teacher, but I wasn’t the best teacher. And these kids deserve the best teacher. But I can do what this other guy’s doing and really serve an important part in this mission.
And that leaves a space for a great teacher to serve those kids in the classroom. And that on top of having talked with another old school attorney guy that my dad had known way back in his career, it sort of talked me into it. And so off I went to law school.
Street
And where did you attend law school?
Swisher
I went to the Thurgood Marshall School of Law at Texas Southern University. Which, I mean, our viewers can’t see me, but, you know, I’m a mostly German, Irish white kid, and I was going to a historically black college and university, and I and I did that by choice. I guess there’s probably maybe too much information.
Street
Please share whatever you want.
Swisher
My wife is African-American and Hispanic. And I really wanted to dive into a culture and to learn more about it, because I grew up in a place, you know, if you go to the West Coast, particularly Oregon, it’s very progressive politics. People talk a big game about being in a diverse community, but it’s not terribly diverse at all.
And I wanted to go to the most diversity in America. And it turns out Thurgood Marshall School of Law is the most diverse law school in the nation and has been for many years running.
Street
Wow. And so powerful because people think of HBCUs as exclusive to one group. Right, but your law school was very eclectic.
Swisher
Quite. Yeah, I would say. I mean, I haven’t looked at this year’s demographics, but in general, it’s about 30 to 40% African-American, 30% Hispanic. Then you have Asian Pacific Islanders. And then there were the others, which was me and a handful of other mostly Caucasian kids.
But it was fascinating. I learned a lot. I was in the minority there.
But what was really interesting to me is that I thought, well, I’m going to immerse myself in this. I’m going to learn what it feels like to be a minority. And guess what? You’re not going to feel that.
I mean, number one, I learned at an HBCU, it’s while it’s historically black, it’s not it’s not a Jim Crow school.
Street
No.
Swisher
It’s an all-comers place. And while people have curiosity and they ask questions about why I was there, it was purely out of curiosity. It was one of the most welcoming spaces I’ve ever been in, and I really appreciated that.
And, you know, my wife and I talk about this – where I could walk home. I could be the numerical minority in that situation, but I could walk home at the end of the day.
And I got to shed that. And she doesn’t get to.
And so it really helped me put some things into perspective that helped my relationship with her, but just my viewpoint on the whole world and how we get along together.
Street
That’s a powerful understanding – what you and your wife were able to discuss. And so you shared a story with me, which I would love for our listeners to also hear, Shawn. You talked about even though the school, the law school, is named after Thurgood Marshall, when they initially approached him about this, he said no,
Swisher
That’s right.
Street
Please share with the listeners why.
Swisher
So there’s a little bit of legal history and I’ll try not to get too wonkish on it, but it actually all started with a young man named Heman Sweatt, who applied to the University of Texas Law School, and I think it was around 1946 is when he initially applied. The president of the university put his application on hold and sought an attorney general’s opinion on whether or not they could admit him.
And the AG came back and said, “negative, we segregate our schools. You cannot allow a black student to be a part of your populace.” And so he sued and, in fact, it was the NAACP that took that up. Thurgood Marshall was actually one of the lawyers that was on that case.
Street
And also Charles Hamilton Houston was like the architect of their strategy, right?
Swisher
That’s correct.
Street
Yeah.
Swisher
In order to head that off, the state rapidly held a legislative session and said, okay, we’re going to take what was at the time it was … I can’t remember what its initial name was. It was the Houston College for the Black, I think is what they called it?
Street
Yeah, because I know I went to Alabama State right into … prior to 1972 was only a teachers college for colored students.
Swisher
Right. Right. And actually at that time, I think it was a community college. But they whipped it together real quick to turn it into any university that would have all these professional programs. So it could say that we’re working, we’re complying with the Plessy doctrine, which is an old 1896 …
And so if we can offer them a law school, a medical school, pharmacy, all that kind of stuff, then that way we can keep this.
Street
There’s no need to integrate.
Swisher
Right. So they whipped that together. They renamed it the Texas State University for Negroes, at that time. It eventually just became Texas Southern University, interestingly, in all that. I find it interesting, maybe I’m getting wonkish.
But Heman Sweatt actually never went to that school. They didn’t get it pulled together in time. He had got an order out of the court saying that, well, in fact, this isn’t separate but equal because the program wasn’t equal.
It was woefully underfunded, all that kind of stuff. Sadly, Mr. Sweatt never ended up going to law school. He got really ill. I think he went and got a social degree, as I recall. And he still worked in the civil rights movement. But in Georgia. But he never really got to go to the school. So fast forward a few years and they really start ramping up, building up this law school.
And it was, you know, like I said, it’s an all-comers – anybody could come. And it’s, you know, another just facet of it. It’s a very affordable school.
Street
Makes a huge difference.
Swisher
Law school can be very expensive. And so it was, it lowered the barrier of entry for people who didn’t have …
Street
Thus enhancing access.
Swisher
Exactly. And when they initially wanted to name it the Thurgood Marshall School of Law, Thurgood Marshall said, I don’t want a Jim Crow law school named after me. And so the dean at the time invited him to come down and visit.
And he came and he saw. And he saw the interactions amongst all these different races and creeds and beliefs. And he changed his mind and he agreed. And so since then, it became the Thurgood Marshall School of Law, which I think is a great story, but I think it’s something that that school should take a lot of pride in as well, because that history is fascinating and really shows how we really all can work together.
Street
I agree. And that’s why I wanted the listeners to hear that story, because, you know, Thurgood Marshall initially saying no was one of the most powerful things that he left us as his legacy. He wanted people to be together. You know, he wanted to see the power of the collective as opposed to the segregated pockets. And I think in 2024, I think it would do all of us some good just to reflect on that, because we truly have more in common than some of the differences that seem insurmountable.
And they’re not. You know, so that’s why I wanted them to hear, because I love that story. And as a historian and an expert in African-American history, I did not know that. So yeah.
Swisher
Normally I learn some from you.
Street
So I was very thankful that he shared that with me. So, all right.
Reflecting on Brown v. Board’s impact (18:48)
Street
So as we continue our discussion around the Brown case and the anniversary, Shawn, I’d like for you to reflect on how Brown has impacted you as a person and a profession. I think you kind of hit on that. But I would like for you also to consider would your life have been different without the Brown decision? And if so, how?
Swisher
It would have been completely different. I mean, quite honestly, in very negative ways. You know, it’s interesting. In the Brown case, they don’t get into a lot of the details, but there’s the footnote that they relied on pretty heavily when they made that unanimous decision, that …
Street
Which is still remarkable, right? A unanimous decision.
Swisher
But that unanimous decision that separate but equal is inherently unequal, had nothing to do with the cost of the facilities, had nothing to do with the qualifications of the staff. It had nothing to do with any of that. It really came down to that footnote talking about the psychological impact on African-American students of being treated as less than, as less than a person.
And that that psychological impact impaired their ability to fully access their educational opportunity. And that’s really what the entire Brown case stands for. And I reflect on that footnote, and I think, you know, I think that that psychological impact hits all of us.
Street
I completely agree.
Swisher
We all are less without one another. And so, I mean, to me, that’s part of the great importance of that case. But even in my own personal life, that has had so much impact. I mean, one, I mean, obviously, I’m not African-American, so I didn’t directly receive the benefit of being able to access education that way. But I strongly understand how access to education changed the course of the history of my family’s lives.
Street
And the country.
Swisher
And the country. It also, I think, has impacted me in other ways. I mean, my brother in law also … my sister had married an African-American man as well. And so we never would’ve known each other. It would’ve changed the whole trajectory of my life. And you know that he’s a close friend of mine.
I mean, we still actually, still get along to this day, which is something to be said for in-law’s. Right?
But I wouldn’t have met my wife. She wouldn’t have been allowed to work in the same school building as me, which is where we met. She was also a teacher. A math teacher. My kids might not be able to access education now.
Interestingly, they’re pretty fair skinned. And so I sometimes just ponder, like, would I have been doing what people often did in the 1800s where if you were light skinned enough, you tried to pass your kids off as white so that they could have access to things like schools and hospitals and all that.
Street
Which is a very powerful statement, right? Because a lot of people assume how they would respond. But until you’re confronted with it and you think about the denial of opportunity for your children … And this is one of the reasons why up until the 1970s, 2,000 African-Americans a year who were light enough passed for white. Not because so much they wanted to deny who they were, but so that they wouldn’t be denied opportunity.
And that’s a hard decision to make, it’s absolutely awful. But I appreciate the fact that you’re honest enough to say …
And going back to what you said about the psychological damage, I think you’re referring to the work of Dr. Kenneth Clarke and his wife, who was also a Ph.D., when they did the doll test. And, you know, and so that was part of the foundational argument for that footnote.
You know, it was that doll test. And we still have colorism in our society. We still struggle with that. And so as we reflect on the Brown case, I think we need to reflect on everything that led to it so that we can continue to evolve.
Swisher
Well it’s impacted every other aspect of society. I mean, the decision itself really added momentum to the civil rights movement and to creating more equitable opportunity for everybody. Yes, but it’s also cited in so many cases that have given us foundational rights as we’ve come along. And I mean, I wouldn’t have even probably been able to marry my wife legally, unless Brown had come about.
Because, Loving v. Virginia, which struck down the anti-constitutional nature of anti-miscegenation laws, it cites Brown. It relied on Brown for an important premise in that. And without that, I mean, I could have been like the poor Lovings who, you know, they ended up getting incarcerated for some time and they had to fight a long, terrible battle to fight for their right just to be married.
Street
Just to be together.
Swisher
Just to be together. That’s right.
Street
You know, 1967 is the year that I was born. And so we’re talking about something that happened within my lifetime.
Swisher
Right.
Street
And I think people, when they look back on history, they think that these are things that happened 150 years ago. These are things that are still fairly recent. Like the Brown decision is only 70 years old. You know, and in the Loving decision, 1967, I mean, I think there are things that we have to reflect on.
And I love what you said. The foundation of so much progress that came after Brown was only because that case was used as a foundation for that progress.
Swisher
Indeed. I mean, I think the great danger for us now is, you know, the court could find a way to reverse it.
Street
It’s a possibility.
Swisher
A possibility. It’s always a risk. Yeah, that’s true of most Supreme Court precedent, I think.
Street
It could be overturned.
Swisher
It could. I think the greater risk to our society, though, is … it’s self-selection – deciding to segregate yourself. And I think that that is happening now in our society. And I think part of that and, you know, I’ve had conversations about this where you and I can be friends and we can have disagreements about things.
But you’re not my enemy because you disagree with me.
Street
Not at all.
Swisher
Neither is that true for my wife. How would any marriage survive if that were the case? Right?
But we had this trend in modern society where if you disagree with me now, you’re my enemy.
Street
In perpetuity.
Swisher
And I think that that is a very dangerous situation for all of us, for our society, for our democracy, for our country.
And I worry about that. And the more that you separate yourself from the other, whoever that is, where the person you disagree with or somebody that maybe you are discriminatory against them, whatever, you don’t give yourself the opportunity to open up to the fact that you might be wrong or that your differences aren’t so important that you have to be enemies.
And if we can overcome that, I think we’re headed for a lot of trouble.
Street
I would agree, Swish. And the thing that’s so troubling as a historian is that we are .. our differences now, in my opinion, are becoming calcified. It’s like if you and I disagree once, then that precludes any opportunity for common ground in the future. And I disagree with that. You know, we can have differences of opinions, but it doesn’t mean that we can’t find common ground later on.
And that’s the real threat to me. And I worry about that because the Brown case was about all of us finding a way to be together.
And it did not indicate that everyone would be sitting around singing Kumbaya. It just meant that we would all be in the same space and be okay with that, even if we disagree with people.
So I would agree with you. The self-selection is something that I consider to be a threat to the legacy of Brown.
Advancing the legacy of the Brown decision (27:00)
Street
All right. So in your opinion, as we celebrate the 70th anniversary, Shawn, in 2024, how can we continue to advance the legacy of the Brown decision?
Swisher
I think the most important thing we can do is to focus, as educators at least, is to focus on what our purpose is here. You know, people want to fight ideological battles in our schools
Street
Which I do not.
Swisher
Right. But I think that that’s a major distraction. And I think that focusing on everybody having an equal shot, because that’s what Brown was about.
Street
Yes, it was.
Swisher
That you get a shot at it because, I mean, I think that there’s there’s a cloud that falls over these discussions, these arguments where people I don’t know if they’re just misinformed or if it’s just miscommunication, but they believe that what is being argued for is an equal outcome. And that’s not what Brown stands for.
Brown stands for “everybody gets a shot.” And I think that’s something that most people can agree with when they realize that that’s what it’s about.
Street
That’s right.
Swisher
And if we lose sight of that, I think we lose sight of what we’re doing. And we start arguing about things that are completely counter to what we’re trying to do here, which ultimately, I mean, if you want to go back to the the classics of early, you know, educational philosophy, we were trying to build – even as Thomas Jefferson said – we’re trying to build an informed citizenry.
That … and democracy doesn’t work without it.
Street
No.
Swisher
In order to participate in democracy, you need to be informed. It doesn’t mean you have to agree. But you have to take part. And you can’t take part unless you know what’s going on. And you’re able to form your own opinions based on evidence, based on facts. And if we disagree on the best way to do that, that’s okay.
But we’re never going to figure it out if we’re not taking care of that first part. And if if we’re not teaching kids to figure it out for themselves, as you know, as you discussed earlier, you know, this whole experiment in democracy that’s only a couple hundred years old.
Street
Very young as countries go.
Swisher
It won’t work out. And it will just be an interesting footnote in history, like they tried at how that turned out.
Street
I think you and I have had many conversations about this, Shawn. In education, I think one way to not be drawn into the distractions of ideological wars is to keep the main thing the main thing, which is the education of our young people. And I also think having conversations where we model for them that we can have disagreements without being disagreeable.
I think that’s one of the contributions we can make to democracy as well, because democracies depend on people being able to work it out. And right now, I fear that as we observe this 70th anniversary, that sometimes that’s being lost.
Swisher
I agree. You said it better than I could.
Street
And then I’d like to go back to something else you said about, you know, often reflection about how my life would be different without Brown, the life that that I’ve been able to carve out would have been completely impossible without Brown. You know, the family that I have, the opportunities I’ve had in life. If I had been born just 10 years earlier, there’s a pretty good chance the doors that I’ve been able to go through, I would not have been able to go through.
And as we celebrate this, I often think about that generation that was born just one decade too soon to fully benefit from the Brown case. And to me, I think we always have to acknowledge them, because my mother, who was born about 10 years before Brown, she was born in 46 and she was a sharecropper. And I remember walking with her on her old plantation first when I was 10 years old, and then again when I was 26.
And because we had just taken my sister, my younger sister to Alabama State, which is the HBCU that I attended. And so we had taken her and my mother and my father and I were walking on the old plantation. And I’ll never forget what she said, which to me encapsulates the sacrifice of that generation right before Brown. She said, “the hardest part about growing up like this, DeWayne, was that we had dreams, too.”
You know, and I never forgot those words. And that’s what drives me to focus on enhancing educational access for all so that no group of people, no matter who they are, will never experience that level of denial of access.
Swisher
You know, that comment is devastating. But I think it’s even more devastating if we don’t remember that and act on it.
Street
Yes it has to drive action, right?
Closing (31:56)
Street
All right. So, Shawn, is there anything else that you would like to share with us today? I’m so happy that you agreed to do this because the conversation has been wonderful.
Swisher
You know, I don’t know, other than, you know, it’s an old silly phrase, but we’ve got to keep on keeping on.
Street
I agree.
Swisher
I mean, that’s to me, that’s we’re going to face a lot of headwinds. And I’ve been in this business long enough to see different kinds of headwinds. And you got to keep moving forward and not lose sight of the objective. And I think if we remember that, we’re going to do OK.
Street
Keep on keeping on. That’s right.
So, Swish, I want to thank you for being our guest today. I know our listeners found incredible value in our discussion. I also want to publicly thank you for being a true partner in enhancing educational access for all LISD students and staff. Your acumen and collaboration have been valuable resources to this office and have made the difference to on some critical moments.
You and I have had some really interesting conversations, my friend. I speak for all of LISD when I say that we are fortunate to have you here.
Swisher
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
